Hello and welcome to another episode of Crutchfield, the podcast. This is another bonus episode. Yes, it is here in the studio again with my co host eric, thanks for having me. Is it does it feel like happy holidays is the right thing to say right now. Um, you know what? We might as well lean right into that, I'd say so yeah, I mean we're dropping this episode right in the middle of the holiday season, The weirdest holiday season ever. Yes, it is, yes, it is. I I think there's some stuff to look forward to. Right around the corner though. I've been hanging more lights, you know, I'm just gonna put more lights around the house, we're gonna get the decorations up, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna have fun with that. Why not? You're going to have more time to do that this year. You're gonna have your christmas lights tied into your, like smart outlets and all of that. Right, so for you, christmas this year means fewer people more technology. Do you have a christmas list? Do your kids have a christmas list? What are we getting this course? They have a christmas list. Oh man, what aren't they getting? Of course they're into Pokemon, some switch games. Uh yeah, they, they've maybe some ninja obstacle course type things. We're trying to hit a couple of different uh, major categories this year for the holidays for them. I live vicariously through the gadgets and toys. I get to get them. So yeah, so yeah, it's fun. I haven't actually gone and searched for it yet, but I'm quite certain there are christmas music channels live and going 24 7 on Sirius XM. Right now, of course people need music when they're hanging those lights right for from, well of course you got to set the mood for me. It's always a matter of like my sister and I, my mom and dad, we would always uh try to see who was gonna be the first one to uh to hear our favorite christmas song come on the radio. This is of course, back in the eighties now we can just go pull it up whenever we feel like it. But when grandma got run over by the reindeer, that's how we knew christmas had. Of course, that's the one. Yeah. So if you're into satellite radio, there's christmas music, go listen to it. If you feel like it. And after, after you're done listening to this and if you're into satellite radio, you should keep listening to this episode because that's why we're here. I had the chance to have a nice zoom interview with paul. Truman. He is the sales director uh for Sirius XM paul is not only in charge of selling satellite radio stuff, but he's had quite the interesting past, he has been in the world of rock and roll up close and personal for a very long time. He's installed car stereos. Hey, spoiler alert. He used to work at circuit city you're doing it again. Jr spoiler alert. Yeah, I'm not trying not to give too many details, but then he moved to X. M. And then Sirius XM and that's where he's at now. So yeah, I'll stop spoiling stuff. Let's get into the interview. My dad actually managed rock bands as I grew up, so I got to, my first actual real job was I was a roadie for a Swedish guitar player named my first record album credit was for Great Driving because I got to driving to the recording studio every night. Oh man, that's awesome. I think being a roadie would be the next best thing to being a performer on stage. I did it between the ages of 16 and let's say 18 and it was what I wanted to do for the rest of my life because I enjoyed it so much. My first tour that I actually went on at the age of six years old was Jethro toll. I got to tour around europe with them, which was quite exciting and I got to see the filming of Kiss meets the phantom of the park where Kiss put on an entire concert and I was the only one in the, Wow! So I thought that was pretty cool and how old were you when that happened? I was 11 at that time. Oh my gosh, but I do still have the, the guitar neck that they smashed on stage during the filming of it and had Paul Stanley signed it to me and it is sitting on my wall to this day. That's awesome. Oh my gosh, how cool would that be to be that kid, that lone kid in the audience at the, at the Kiss movie. Seven year old JR had a one at a carnival, a mirror that said kiss on it and I was very excited about that as a kid. I love the, I love the guitars and the makeup and the, the pyrotechnics and the show that they put on. I yeah, I dug kiss when I was a wee lad and he was a wee lad and got his own performance. Okay, so that is cool. I'd probably be into Kiss if I had that experience. They put on a spectacle. That would be awesome. Basically, I've been with Sirius XM or shall I say X. M since 2004. So 16 years in 2008. Uh, we obviously merged and became one satellite company with serious. So then obviously Sirius XM, when we merged, the only thing that changed, that I actually still missed to this day is the, the, the fun banter between each company saying how we're great and you kind of suck. So that's really the only thing that changed. I have been here at Crutchfield since 1996. So I was able to go through both both companies coming to fruition. Uh, and uh, early on before X. M actually launched their service, They paid for two charter busses to take about somewhere around 50 or 60 Crutchfield employees myself included from Crutchfield here in Charlottesville Virginia all the way into D. C. To the X. M. Headquarters to see all the studios that were about to start going live and to see the control center. And uh, and we got a full on training of all the plans, a preview of the channels and the hardware and all of that. And that was amazing. And then I was serious. I was one of the things I do at Crutchfield is I train the new sales advisors. And somehow we convinced somebody at serious and somebody at Crutchfield To pay for me to take a class of 10 trainees up to New York to go to serious and do something very similar. Now, this was after the service had been launched. And so we got to tour most of serious, we got to get on the air, on NFL radio. We hung out on the air with Jose on, on his me, was it liquid metal, uh, heart attack? Heart attack, That's what it was. Thank you. Uh, I said the f word on the air knowing that it was okay, but at the same time, probably not the greatest idea to do, but you know, I'm still here too. I lived to tell about it. And uh, and me and that was just so much fun. It is amazing going into both Sirius and XM and still to this day, I still, every time you walk in, get excited and you realize how cool the actual services. In fact, I think it was about two years, 2.5 years ago when I took my the newest team member to do a tour of the new york studios and within the first half hour they had seen, she had seen, who was that Ryan Reynolds, Snoop, Dogg, Jamie Foxx and dan rather's all within 30 minutes of walking into the studios, which is just still amazing to this day, wow. Yeah, no kidding. It's like, it's electric artist confidential. That was a lot of fun. We got to see a couple live performances when we went to X. M. Did you, have you been to see some of the artists confidential shows? The first one I actually saw there was Kansas and what we found, especially in the D. C. Studios is artists actually requested to come in and record and actually do different demos or shows for us because that studio, as you obviously know was state of the art and still is, I mean it's still upgraded. It's an amazing room. Which ones did you get to see? We got to see two of them in excess when they had were touring with their new singer that they got from the reality show that they did. And the second one we saw was Megadeth wow, what a show it was loud and amazing. Yeah. And some of the other cool things are the actual private events or private concerts we've done since the merger. Like you saw, you saw Megadeth, I got to go see Metallica at the Apollo and I don't think it was physically possible to be any louder. That's the way I like it. I definitely had their amps going to 11 that day. So before Sirius and XM you were at Circuit City, right? I was, I started with Circuit City as a part time installer going through college in Woodland hills, California. Um, just was always into car audio. Always. You know, you know, the second I started with cars, I started putting my own stuff in in fact, the funniest thing or coincidental thing that I'm actually, you know, talking with you is that the one of the most important tools I had as an installer was the original Crutchfield catalogs that used to come out because they had like this amazing fit guide in them. You know, that's, I'm so glad you say that because we knew we had heard rumors and we were pretty sure that the crutchfield catalog back in the, in the nineties was when I started that when, when you, we had like five or six pages of all of the vehicle fit information, we figured this has to be a valuable tool for not only Crutchfield customers to use to pick out stuff, but potentially for our competition for local places just to use it as a resource. And uh, and you're telling me that's exactly what was happening. Oh yeah, we, I, I, and a lot of other people that circuit you used it for years because it was spot on. And it was one of those things that if you didn't know every single car, you just went to that catalog, opened it up, said, nope four by sixes in the dash, four by ten's in the back. But then you could use this adapter and put six by nines back there. So it was great. Yeah, that's fantastic to hear. And boy, the catalogs we put out these days look a whole lot different than what we put out then. Uh, now it's really full of really interesting creative stuff. I think I just got a new car and I got a new stereo system in it. We're gonna feature my car in there. So these are real Crutchfield employees, real stories, real, uh, information that people need to use to make educated buying decisions about whatever it might be a new drone, a new camera, new home theater, a new stereo, what satellite radio stuff is coming out next. And so the, the catalogs these days are significantly more streamlined. There's no fit guide in them anymore because, you know, the website. Yeah, I have to commend you on the amount of work you put on your, on your website for that fit guide and recommendations. It's really, really well done. You know, I wouldn't be surprised if our competitions using it there as well because it's it's kind of out there and available to anybody who wants to go to the website. Uh and arguably more information, a lot more information than could ever have fit in one of those catalogs. Yeah, it's always a good use, especially if I'm doing something at home with my kids cars or my wife's car. So that's really cool. You know, the point of crutchfield, the podcast, What we try to accomplish with each episode as well, what we like to talk normally to our employees. But we we like opening it up when we over whenever we find interesting people uh in the business like yourself. But what we want to know is, you know, we have insider access to some of the coolest stuff on the planet. So what do we choose to spend our own hard earned money on and why? And how are we using it? How is it impacting our lives? So you used to be an installer worked at circuit city. You're you're the Sirius XM guy. I want to know like how do you listen to satellite radio in your car in your home? Tell us about your actual hardware choices and and and that kind of stuff. Alright. So actually the coolest thing I just put in um was I put in the new Pioneer um D. M. H. C. 5500 um the eight inch screen. I put it in my wife's sequoia and use the metric it that was designed specifically for it. That's the one with the floating screen right? Yeah it looks absolutely amazing and obviously it has an S. XV. 300 hooked up to it. Um I put the I just put a A V. X. A. X. 7000. The Sony high powered radio in my son's Volvo and then put in a obviously Sony amp and 12 inch sub. Then use the the power of the Sony deck to you know do the separates in the 6.5 in the rear doors. And that thing is amazing of course with an S. XB 300 and then my daughter's car, I've got the Pioneer. I've got a kenwood 89 06 S. So all of them are Sirius XM compatible. All great head units. But I think the my personal favorite is I've got a Yamaha home receiver where I've got uh speakers throughout the house. But it's obviously Sirius XM compatible. But what I actually enjoy doing is using my ipad with the Sirius XM app on it and then streaming it throughout the house and outside because I can just control it and do all the on demand stuff so I find that you know no matter where I'm at, I'm pretty much covered and you know still to this day you know years years later I so much enjoy either doing the home audio stuff or the car stuff. Hence why I'm constantly putting in stuff into my my kids cars now. Alright. Eric we probably should explain what an S. XV 300 V. One is. It is a small hideaway satellite radio tuner. It's a small black box that sits inside your dash behind your aftermarket stereo. So if you install a new radio in your car and you want satellite radio, new radios do not have the tuner built in. It's always this little separate thing that you add to the back of it. Yeah the really cool thing about that is it allows you to control satellite radio right from the head unit. You're gonna get album art and get your favorites, you're gonna be able to change the channel. See all those things right from your aftermarket head unit. Yeah and it doesn't matter which brand radio you have, you just need to find a new stereo that says Sirius XM on it. And that means it's compatible with this tuner, you by the tuner, you put it in there behind the radio and you're good to go. And as far as buying that tuner goes, you might not even end up having to pay much for because there's often a mail in rebate or some sort of offer that Sirius XM puts out there to make it easy and cheap, sometimes free especially if you're a new customer. Yes to get that tuner, get it up, get it hooked up and call them or activate it online and you know you pay for a subscription which is why they make that tuner free listening to satellite radio in the home is a little different than in the car. That being said. It's never been easier. Right. It used to be kind of the same idea in the home where you would buy say a stereo receiver or a home theater receiver and it would say Sirius or XM ready. This was before they merged have an antenna that you put in a window and kind of hope that it's always going to work for you. And and those those serious satellites they actually are in rotation up there so they move. So where you put your antenna at two in the afternoon might not even pick up satellite signal at six in the afternoon. It was definitely tricky getting it to work, getting everybody on board using the right hardware. They've just harnessed the power of the internet. And since satellite radio is also streaming internet radio, then why not just use that because your home theater receiver, stereo receivers, even if they're not network, you could bluetooth it from your phone. But uh you know you can use like for example a Yamaha home theater receiver probably has something in it called music cast. And within music cast you can sign in to your Spotify account, your Pandora account, your Sirius XM account. And once you've done that your your Yamaha receiver can stream whatever channel you tell it to from satellite radio. You're in a good place now with the S. XV 300 just that's the tuner and it just works with any Sirius XM ready radio. But for a long time there was separate hardware for different radios with weird little tuners and then they would not be compatible or backwards compatible. It was, I gotta say it was tough there for a while dealing with the hardware issues. Uh and uh I'm happy to see that we're in a much better place with hardware in these last few years than we were then. I just remember like you had the Sony box which was the size of a small amp, the pioneer box size of a small amp. So you actually had to do almost like a full amp install to put satellite radio to a head unit. And then if you change the head unit then you have to change everything else. Now these things just go behind the dash. Uh My my favorite of the ones that I had was the, I believe it was called the Delphi Sky five. If I'm not mistaken. I think that was the name the first truly portable one. It had a battery, you could walk around and listen to it. You could use regular headphones with a special headphones with an antenna on the top. And and that was also back when the FM transmitters that were built in were super strong and you could use them just about anywhere with any radio. That actually that's the my fi my five, that's what it was saying, that my fi yeah, it came with home kit, car kit and at the same time all units had what we considered basically a small radio station in them because the transmitting power could pretty much hit every car within a five mile radius. You know, it was incredible. I remember going to see s one year with the my fi obviously X. M. Didn't have the NFL at the time but you know, we still had ESPN and they were doing live updates for the cowboys in the playoff game. And I just remember listening to the game and watching the sports update on the screen and as it was getting closer to the end I went to the emergency exit of the plane holding the my fi up to the window so I could hear it and everyone thought like what's this dude doing with this device next to an emergency emergency door window and the flight attendant comes over and I said oh it's just the cowboys game and she just kind of looked at me and went okay and then I got to hear Tony Romo screw up and I went sat down and was miserable for the rest of the flight and then got to see it the whole time I was walking around Vegas that night. So there you go. You got to see all the replays of Tony Romo. Yeah, because it's not like they don't have big screens of television showing sports stuff in Vegas. So, you know, we were getting along pretty good until I figured out you were a cowboys fan. So, so I guess I'll have to forgive that as a lifelong Washington football team fan. Right. Well that's a new team. I haven't heard of them before, but I'm sure they'll start doing well. Finally coincidentally, my last football game I actually attended was at Fedex field. I just say that any sporting event you can go to regardless of whether you like the team or not is just an amazing experience. So yeah, no doubt about it. So it seems like you're listening to some sports on satellite radio. You've mentioned a couple of times Metallica megadeth, things like that. What, what do you listen to mostly like what's your favorite station on, on satellite radio? So I don't have a favorite station. I have favorite station. So if you were to go through my presets and believe it or not, most vehicles have more than six because if you ask the average Sirius XM customer, they have their six channels and that's all they listen to. But I pretty much go between anything from first wave two. Let's see Boneyard to Hair nation as you can see my age there include the eighties channel involved with that. But then I also go to BPM and that's probably that of course um let's see what else we got in there. Oh I do love Rock Bar on channel 3 13. That's a lot of people don't realize that our channels go all the way up their guilty pleasure and you'll either agree or disagree with this. But for some reason you can always throw on yacht radio and next thing, you know, you're listening to about four songs in going, I really should change this channel, but I'm gonna see what the next song comes on. My girlfriend and I listened to that regularly. Uh the other channel by the way, she wanted me to mention this. Uh Billy Joel channel seems to come and go, we really want that to just always be available not only on streaming but on the satellite radio. So she can, she has an older car where the radio is not replaceable and she doesn't want the dock in place. So she just listens to it on the factory serious or or is it X. M. Whatever came with the sob that she drives. She uh she wants billy Joel available at the push of a button. So what can you do to make that happen paul I I will make a few calls, see what I can do. But yeah it's funny when you actually ask people what their favorite channels are. I mean, you know, I think a long time ago, one of our head of programming on the X. M. Side said something that always kind of stayed true to how I look at satellite radio was, we don't want 100 million listeners listening to one channel. We want a million listeners listening to 100 different channels and that's why we change and do the pop up channels. So, true story when I used to drive from new England down to Virginia, it's pretty long drive. There were times that my wife and I will eventually, my wife, we would go through the channels and we would just commit to listening to one minute of each channel and sometimes we'd end up on a station that we would never otherwise listen to. And sometimes we'd stay on it for a while, we'd experience something new, like the reggae channel. Yeah, exactly. Like that's not normally my jam, but every now and then it is my jam. You know, they have the bandwidth to have these pop up channels so that they can have like a channel dedicated to a particular artist or in particular, really niche genre of music, I I still believe. And I really hope paul takes this back to headquarters. There should always be there. That's, that's a big enough artist, right? I mean, there there's a Beatles channel, there's a jimmy Buffett channel. Yes, there's a Bruce Springsteen channel. I think there should be a Billy Joel channel all the time, but he might be right keeping people interested by making, it's kind of like the Mcrib at Mcdonald's right. If it was always available, they wouldn't sell that many MMA cribs, but they generate that excitement because hey, the Mcrib is back. Billy Joel channel is back. I get a text from my girlfriend every time the billy Joel channel comes back on the air. Uh, so I wouldn't feel like I was doing my job if we didn't talk a little bit about Howard Stern. That was kind of a game changing move of serious. Right. Do you think that that has something to do with why serious sort of led the charge with the merger? There was because the strength of their numbers in the wake of getting Howard Stern, I think what's very interesting was at the time when he signed with serious and it's interesting because XM truly believed that they were going to sign Howard. So it was kind of one of these battles to see who could get talent and serious won that battle. And I will tell you that instantly skyrocketed. Uh, subscriptions on the serious side he went on on the tonight show or whatever it was to announce he's going to serious and the next day it was amazing how things change. I think he made a huge impact to the success of satellite radio. It was easy to think that the competition for X. M. R. For serious was terrestrial radio and early on even before launch, you guys, I forget the gentleman's name who was training us, but he made it very clear that they see things in a much bigger way than that because their competition is not just other ways to listen to radio. Their competition is basically anything that takes your attention away from satellite radio. So that could be streaming, that could be reading a book, that could be literally anything else. So how do we deal with everything out there? And it seems like you guys have something for everything and you can we can listen to your service, doing anything just about anywhere. I don't I don't disagree with that at all. I think as we adapt and do different things, you know, obviously with purchasing Pandora last year that was one step into gaining subscribers on the streaming side and then being able to cross promote between both satellite based product and streaming based product as we're now, you know, dabbling and tapping into podcasts, there's, we just want to be the one place you can go to that. You can get anything from, you know, the Washington football team playing whoever to listening to Manchester unite cited to listening to Garth brooks to listening to Howard Stern, to listening to you know, kevin Hart all in one place. But then at the same time with the introduction of Sirius XM video for the app product, you know, we now have, you know, Howard Stern. So not only do you get to, you know, listen to Howard Stern interview and watch, you know, listen to def Leppard play live, you can actually go back and actually watch that and actually see them play live now is all the Howard Stern Crew, they're all pretty much doing this from their homes now, is that right? Yeah, I believe in fact we've got a lot of shows you mentioned, Jose, I believe Jose is doing is show from home still to this day, Covino and Rich are doing it from their places in the san Fernando valley, you've got jim and SAm doing theirs from their places in new york. And of course Howard Stern, we set up studios in a studio in his house. So these are all different things that allow us, because we had all this technology to do all these live events that we just moved them to, all the, all the places they needed to be. So that even during when everything shut down, our content never went to prerecorded, it just stayed live because we were able to adapt and make it work for everyone. It's awful to think of all of those amazing studios sitting there empty or not being used as much as they could be right now, but it's awesome to think that you guys just never missed a beat. I mean as a, as a, as a, as a person with a sort of a tuned ear for radio, I could tell that most of the DJs or a lot of the DJs on a lot of the stations are doing their work somewhere else other than one of those amazing studios. I gotta say though the Howard Stern show somehow doesn't sound any different, even though they're all at home, like the whatever you guys are doing to make that sound as good as possible, it's working. Yeah. You know, especially when I think we still have the producers going into our studios in new york and we still have, you know, a few people going in as they are deemed essential and when the feed goes in, it's going through obviously the same stuff that it would be going through if it was being done in the studio. So I'm sure that has a lot to do with it as well. Well, good on you for that. Um, you, you mentioned podcast earlier, we're recording a podcast right now. How do you guys, how do you guys see the future of podcasts with satellite radio. So it's, it's interesting you bring that up because we just are in the process of acquiring stitch, which is obviously a podcast company and we'll see how that goes again. You know, the one thing that when Sirius XM or Sirius XM were first known for when they started was, hey, great. I get commercial free music no matter where I am in the United States. Well now it's really your one stop entertainment company. It's, it's everything you could think of all in one place. That's kind of the next step is to add podcast to that. So you have something listen to in the house and on long journeys man, the app took it to another level. Uh, it's what you can do with the app, with the video. With the, on demand. If you're Howard Stern fan, you're crazy not to listen to him on the app because you can, you can listen to it live obviously. And also later in the day after the live show is over, you can download the entire show and listen to it without commercials uninterrupted, it's amazing. It's like the best possible Howard Stern experience you can imagine. And of course in the car using carplay or android auto, the app works with that. So I mean it's kind of, in my opinion, it's the best overall experience is the app itself. And then I back that up with actual satellite radio in both cars. You're right because if you combine both satellite based and streaming, you really do get the best of both worlds. So the, the, the tour, that's the new radio and that does actually combine both, right? So if you have cell service, You can, you can have all of the benefits of the streaming stuff and if you don't, you're on satellite radio either way. You have satellite, the satellite signal to use. Yeah. And for example, like if I jump in my car and let's say, you know the stern show started, you know, 30 minutes ago and I've got it on the tour and I'm listening to it all of a sudden, it will give you an option to say start from beginning. You hit start from beginning all of a sudden it will go back and start the show right from the beginning, switch from satellite and then go to a streaming version, which is really kind of cool not to mention, it's the first piece that we've launched with bluetooth connection. So you don't have to go through Occean RFM, you just sync it up to the bluetooth in the car and it'll just play directly through bluetooth and even in some vehicles, the data that's on the screen of the tour will actually come up on the screen of the car as well, which is really quite nice. That's a nice touch. I like that. So like in my car, in my Volvo, the only car you can probably purchase, you can't change the radio in which I did. Um, I now get to see it on my screen as well. So it's not the only one. Believe me, there seems to be more and more of those every year. Uh, cars where you cannot replace the radio at least not yet, paul, I don't have anything else on my list of questions to talk to you about. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to, to talk with me about all things satellite radio. Thanks ever so much and have a great rest of the day. That was a fun interview. Yeah man, it was, it was nice to talk satellite radio. It has been one of my favorite products services that we have sold since its inception. It was really innovative. They continue to innovate to this day, no doubt the idea that they have purchased Pandora and can now provide something other than simple, basic radio stations, right? They can customize a listening experience for you and they're getting into the podcast thing because clearly podcasts are hot. They are the coolest Sirius XM wants to be one of the many places you can go to listen to podcasts along with all the other stuff you listen to. So I love that they're innovating Keeping up with the times continuing to be relevant and interesting in case you are interested in seeing the products that paul and I mentioned in this interview there will be links to all of that stuff here in the show notes for this episode, right on crutchfield dot com slash podcast. Season two should probably be starting right around february. We are going to have a january bonus episode and it's gonna be something we're not exactly sure what it's going to be yet, but I know that for the past four years I have been lucky enough to go to Las Vegas to the consumer electronics show two to see the new gear that many of our vendors are putting out, right? So we get to go to see clips and Sony and Canon and uh Sennheiser and Yamaha, whoever uh they've got any stuff. It's pretty exciting to go see that and I know every year eric is like, hey, I think I should go and I have good news for you, eric this year for the first time you and me can attend si es together. Sweet. I've been wanting to go to Vegas for so long. Well, I have even better news. You don't even have to travel this, that's not good news. We're gonna, we're gonna sort of, we're gonna really pay attention to what's coming out of Las Vegas or wherever it's coming out of this year, CS is happening, but it's all virtual, so we're going to be and, and you're, you're a person that pays attention to that stuff and yeah, it's, it's not unlike what I do anyway. I totally tune in. Uh you know, that week leading into it. I try to get spoilers as to what's going on into the different booths. It's uh it's fun, it's huge from the industry. Uh it's when all the new, all the big companies introduced new gadgets. It's, it's a really cool event and yes, I've been jealous for years of you getting to go. Um but you know, I call you up from time to time while you're there like, hey jr you gotta check out this new cool thing and I'm like, quit, eric, I'm in Vegas, I'm working. No, no, your input has always been helpful. It points us in different directions that we might not have thought of to go to, because you're seeing it from the perspective of what, what's being made public out there as we're in the middle of it, walking around on the floor. We don't always know what the big story is. So, uh no, your input has always been great, and this time we're gonna, we're gonna figure out what that looks like. Uh In january we're gonna pay attention and we're gonna get together and we're gonna talk about what we're seeing from si es So sometime in january you'll get a C. E. S breakdown courtesy of ERic and me here and Crutchfield, the podcast will bring you the content we're going to do safely. Of course, yeah, just like we are right now, sitting a good 10 ft apart, wearing masks when we're not talking to you here on these mics, being safe, being responsible, thank you everybody for listening, we'll be back in january with the C. E. S breakdown, eric, it's been a pleasure, thanks for joining me here in studio again today, it's a great time, like, always over and out.