Crutchfield: The Podcast Ep. 47

Hello and welcome to Crutchfield Live. I'm your host, Jr I'm the training manager here at Crutchfield. As you can see, we've got a whole new video set up for Crutchfield Live. We are super excited to use it today with our special guest, our special guest, you know anything about speakers, homes, speakers and the people that designed them. Then you know this guy, his name is Andrew jones and he's right here on the big screen in what looks like my living room. Welcome Andrew jones to the show. How are you? I'm good, it's good to be here. I'm sort of in my living room, I got my new listening room. It just looks like I'm a home library in the back and I got the system in the front paintings and everything looks really cool. It looks quite personalized in there. I see your initials carved in wood behind you there. Nice, nice, nice. A nice collect cds and some vinyl over there and all my physics books from university that are over 40 years old. Nice. So is this your home or is this a workplace that you've made? This is the work place. We set this up to be a really good sounding listening room, but not to look like the typical listening room of bare walls and a few absorber panels, stuff like walks on the wall. It's all decorated to make me feel as though we could be at home. And that was the whole point about it. So what we haven't mentioned here in the live yet is that you know, for those that may or may not know you've recent made a move, Right? The last I know that I spoke with you, you worked at a different company, you're now with mo fi electronics and if I two years this coming january two years and for a long time nobody knew where you were, what you were doing, it was a huge mystery, interesting, speculating all these people saying where they thought I might be moving to know you're not going to and then you and then you announced it, I believe that AXPONA in Chicago, is that right? That's right. Yes, I want to announce too early because until I knew what kind of products I wanted to do then I got not much to say. And even for announcing the product, we didn't announce the product that because so many times it's very easy to get caught up in being excited about developing something and announcing it early and people going, so where is it not ready yet. So, we wanted to make sure we knew we had the date set for the manufacturing before we product. So we're gonna talk a little bit more in depth about the product itself, the mafia's new speakers, the source point tens, which are currently available for backorder pre order whatever it is on crutchfield dot com, I'm king if you have thoughts on, I'm not looking for brands or anything like that, but just in general, the idea of bi amping or by wiring speakers. Do you believe in? It makes a difference. Do you like it? Do you advocate for it? Do you care what your thoughts on by amping and by wiring? So for this model I deliberately avoided. I notice that there's one set of positives and negatives on the back of the source 10.10. So um yeah if we're talking there's all manner how you talk about, what do you mean by by amping this passive by amping and acted by amping? So when we talk about passive damping, all we mean is putting one amplifier to drive for speaker, maybe the tweeter into a system and one amplifier to drive the bass section. But the crossover that was designed in the speaker remains were simply removing the links on the dual set of costs. It adds very little capability in terms of output because you're still driving the same single voltages full range from each amplifier. So the amplifier will pretty much clip at exactly the same point. The only reason why it might not is since the for the base driver, if it's been Esther Bradley current it would drag the voltage down because of limits in the power supply and so prematurely clip. Whereas the tweet round five isn't subject to the vagaries of what the bass amplifier is trying to do but that depends on the regulation of the power supply. Most switching out for example have switching power supplies which are fully regulated so there'll be absolutely no benefit there. Um active by amping means removing the passive crossovers, you certainly wouldn't put extra crossovers in the amplifiers in a bio system. If you're still using the passive crossovers, that would totally mess up how the bass drivers integrated with the main amplifier with twitter. So uh passive by amping is the only boat and it's very, very limited um advantages who completely different when we're talking about a fully active system and there's huge advantages of having all the multiple fires dedicated to the frequency range um but not so much impassive. And I think most of our viewers probably don't live in a world or their world where everything it would take to actively by amplify these speakers, it's probably not happening. No, no good. What about by wiring just real quick on that one, then we'll get out of that. This is not this is not the fun part of the discussion. I could make out a technical argument where you might be able to measure some difference to buy wiring from a technical point of view. Now, if you're all about technical stuff and measurements are the only thing that tell you what's going on, then you'd mostly poo poo bye wiring. If you're into uh following the cables make a difference in sound, then you've given yourself an extra degree of freedom. You can choose which cable used for the offer and the twitter. Um So in that sense you'd say well Iraq wiring gives me an extra bit of choice. Um but I'm not going to argue with which cables or what the sound of cables are, whether it's worth doing that. Just if you already believe in cables, it gives you an extra degree of freedom. Excellent. At the bare minimum use speaker wires that were designed to send music from an amplifier to the speaker and use some good ones. Used ones rated. And for me, one of the most important things are they flexible enough to make it easy to connect? I mean like with power chords, so many power cords so stiff you move something and it pulls the plug out of the socket and you lose all power speaker cables, especially spade type connectors, you're gonna be connecting them all and then you're going to be moving the speakers around to find the right location in the room every time you twist and move the speaker, you can loosen up those spade connectors because the cable stiffness is fighting and you know, you're always trying to twist them to get the right orientation to get the spade into the bananas and it could end up shorting them across or they fall off and short themselves. So uh my main interesting cable is nice flexible cables of good enough um gauge and good connectors. And I always prefer tight fitting loaded banana, My favorite way of connecting and by far and away the easiest for sure. So for those watching at home that are joining us, if you don't know who we've got on tv here. This is Andrew jones working as a speaker designer at mofa electronics. He's been, he's kind of world famous if you're not already familiar for designing some pretty incredible speakers, including the reference speakers from technical audio dynamics. Do I have that right devices? Uh, pioneer infinity calf L Ac. In fact, when you were with L Ac, I did get to, I don't know if you can see this from there. I'm showing the webcam. This is me on the cover of crutchfield dot com. Yeah, that was me that cut your l act speaker in half. I'm looking forward to cutting to one of your source point tens in half. I don't know if you're gonna send us one of those, but let's, let's talk about those because I think that's the main reason we're here, is to find out what, what should we be excited about with these new speakers that I'm looking forward to hearing for the first time. It was an interesting project. The joining. It gave me a chance to spend quite appreciable time to decide what I wanted to do. There were very limited briefs of what mof I wanted other than to let me create something and one of those was to have good impactful bass. The other was this idea currently of having big speaker boxes, not narrower and narrower and narrower speaker cabinets because there's a limit to how much driver you can put on the front of those cabinets again, putting on the side and whatever. But it intrigued me that concept. So we could go back to big boxes and big woofers. That's something that I haven't really done other than in the T A. D speakers, which were huge speakers but their high end, all high end speakers use, but most affordable speakers don't until recently. There are exceptions like zoo audio as one example, but typically wolfers barely get bigger than eight inch. And so the idea of working with a 10 inch in treatment. The other aspect I always do is concentric drivers. So would I be combining a doing a three way in a concentric driver with a big win for and I got thinking more about it, having the time to think through possibilities. I thought it'd be rather cool to do something I've never done before and although something I so I've never done a two way concentric um Cast models and I did back in the day 40 years ago, maybe again. Um but I haven't recently had always said it has to be three way in order to minimize comb movement. Um but the other way to minimize comb, if the driver is big enough then the cold moment is less for a given amount of base. And so that's the other way to do it. If the brief is to have a big bass driver then that's the perfect time to experiment with a two way concentric. So that was the development I plan to do and you know, it looks as though that must be much simpler to develop. It's just a two way um but that one decision leads to all sorts of things I have to take care of in the development process and that took time. So let me clarify something you just said there with the 10 inch driver being wider, more surface area, larger diameter than many of the slender speakers with the smaller 6.5 8 inch because they're wider with more surface area, they don't have to move as far in and out to create the same amount of base which will allow them to also then be an effective midrange speaker. Is that the idea? Well that's the difficulty um how It's not easy to make a 10", be an effective mid range driver. Um It's common in pro audio but the requirements in pro audio are not for life sound and not quite the same as what we want for home audio and I've never developed a 10" bass midrange driver and I never developed obviously a 10 inch concentric. So that took a lot of development work to get to the point, I am now but if I was willing to give me the time and allow the investment because all the parts, the combs around the tweeter, the magnet parts, whole forging, everything had to be custom design and custom tooled and you can't test the concept until he spent all that money to, to look for all the special parts. So when the first driver um got built up, I'm just keeping, keeping our fingers crossed, I started measuring it and going, oh, this might actually work and bad developed. Uh first cut the cross over and put it all together and started listening. I mean, yeah, this has got something about it. This is interesting. So I was fortunately happy and relieved that it didn't work out. I've seen in other interviews where you said that was that, that first listen that first, you know, actual speaker to listen to with this design. You haven't changed much from their small tweaks and stuff. What kind of small tweaks can you be any more specific on, like what type of things You, you went and said, let's fix this, let's fix that. Unfortunately, the comb worked very nicely, very nice and smooth. Um the match to the surround, we've got that corrugated surround on it. Concertina surround, whichever word you want to use to describe it. And that took a bit of more development because there were some issues of matching that to the coal in getting the right acoustic properties. So I played around with that a bit and played around with the magnet system to improve it and fine tune it. Um but you know, if it, these days with modeling techniques you can get a lot of the way there. Um the one thing we're a bit far off still is perfecting just drink the cone and the material in the modeling and then building and going, oh yeah, match perfectly modeling of those kind of things is good for incremental changes. They predicted change accurately if you're coming from nothing to something that it's still not necessarily that good. Um and you know, paper with its variability, ease of knowing what its properties are, is a bit more uncertain than maybe something I can elude code. So in in a concentric driver design the wool for itself is acting as a natural wave guide for the high frequencies coming out of the tweeter. I'm trying to wrap my mind around that as a concept. Right? When I think of a wave guide, I think of a rigid piece of plastic, aiming those high frequencies in a particular direction, but this wave guide is a, is a moving diaphragm. Uh is that the, is that a challenge or is that the benefit of that? Is that the wave guide is moving with the twitter, What's going on there? So uh you got a challenge in the, what is the shape of that wave guide? Because potentially the shape that you need is a wave guide for the twitter is not the same shape as you need to act as a good mid range code, it's a base cone, you don't really care, but if it's a bass midrange cone, you really do care. So you got that battle to fight during the development. Um we're going to discuss the battle. You don't want it moving very far because the difference, it's not popular distortion. That there's this belief that the co the co moving and the tweeter creates popular distortion. We don't hear that distortion. Anyone who says, oh by reducing motion, we reduce the distortion. Yes, you do. But it's not popular. It's mostly the regulator modulation distortions that happen in a two way system which are pretty much eliminated in a freeway system. And secondly, um it's just the fact that as the cone alters its position relative to where the dome is, you get a small change in the response of the tweeter and thats amplitude modulated distortion, which is again a different thing, something you want to minimize. But it's it's not the distortion. If dr distortion were audible, we would never bear listening to full range electrostatic speakers because that's exactly what would be happening in a full range electrostatic, all the signals carried on one dia family is moving back and forth quite a long way place. So there you go. But uh one of the things to understand about wait guys is there's a belief that restricts the dispersion of the top end. It doesn't if it's correctly designed, What it's doing is restricting the dispersion at the bottom end where it's too wide when it crosses over to the wall for, you know, typical for gets more and more directional as you go up in frequency. And what you hope for is you can cross over low enough that it's not too narrow by the time you cross over to the much wider director to twitter, that's where you get this mismatch of axis where you get a hole in the mid range because it has become directional twitter isn't. Um What a way guy does is help restrict the bottom end of the tweeter and match it exactly to the wall for So if you had to go off off access, you'll see very little difference of access with a gentle downward tilt in overall response. Um so and big wave guides are very good in that respect and also allow you to cross over lower. So that was particularly important when I'm talking about a two way with a 10 inch wall for I can't cross over three K. I needed to cross over about one half K. So that was part of the cult of the twitter. Um as it got low enough present frequency, has it got enough power handling, has it got enough movement capability to cross it over? Nearly an octave lower than typically crossover. Final sixteens referred to a one inch twitter. So twitter is a a larger diameter voice coil, large rolls around lower resonant frequency and also by putting it in that wave guide, it picks up the tremendous amount of uh efficiency increase at the bottom end of its working range. And so once again, that helps minimize the amount of power reporting to the tweeter. And at the same time the magnet assembly allows me to get very high flux density in the twitter. So the tweeter itself is 95 db efficiency at the top end and 100 db at the bottom end. So it doesn't need much power to produce very high sound levels. That obviously those are big numbers for twitter efficiency. So that's yeah. And to cross them over that low, it makes a lot more sense now why this works. And uh I'm really looking forward to hearing them. I want to ask you something a little less technical now, uh you know, a big part of the process in developing speakers as you've described as you've told us about the room you're in, is sitting there listening to speakers uh is that as tedious as it might sound? Is it awesome? Do you enjoy it or do you get sick of it? Talk to us about that as a process and many hours it takes like how do you keep from going crazy listening? What I presume you're listening to the same song or songs over and over again. Tell me more about how that works for you. Well. So it actually, it's very enjoyable. The frustration is knowing when you've got it just right. Yeah. It's like Goldilocks and the three bears. This bed is too hard. This bed is too soft. This bed is just right. When is that bed? Just right. And, but it's still ultimately an enjoyable experience because you've created something you're trying to make it the best that you can And the music that I use, I've always chosen music for dentals that, yes, it's good demo material, particularly if I'm trying to show particular features, you know how good it is for male or female vocal or more complex music, but every piece I select musically at least for me. And hopefully for the audience send people speaking out of the room. It's musically enjoying enjoyable. It's not just, you know, we like to denigrate audiophile music as being really well recorded before in the sector. Listen to him. There's lots of audiophile music if we define that as being very well recorded. There's lots of that that is musically very involving and lots of more popular recordings that are well recorded. Um, so every piece I play. I can stand listening to it over and over and over at a show or when I'm in a listening room and it's absolutely the case that once I finished the listening evaluation part, I could still go back and go, okay, so now I can just enjoy listening to that piece of music as a piece of music. It it doesn't preclude its use. I've immediately finished using it to develop with, I've made my decisions now I can just easily go back and just okay now I don't have to think I can just enjoy that piece of music so I enjoy that process and I'm always anxious. I hear all the initial development is done through uh measurement but the final development always done through listening and that kind of sounds. Well how can that be? How can it be all designed by measuring? But finished by listening is because I still everything I hear, I will try to relate back to something in the measurement but always with designing imperfect products, there's no perfect speaker if we set a goal of what a perfect measurement for a speaker would be, we're way off of that. And so I'm dealing in imperfections, I'm dealing in uh how far I am away from that perfect measure, performance and when I see those imperfections in those measurements, I want to relate that to what the aud ability of that is because not everything we measure in the curve is immediately audible and vice versa. And so that's the fun part trying to Relate 1 to the other. Ultimately um we can say that there's an ideal goal for the measurement of the speaker. The trouble is which measurement is it? Because there isn't a single parameter of frequency response, even that is the goal because every speaker type has different activity characteristics and different interactions with the room. And so there isn't one on axis curve that defines what the sum total of that speakers technical capability is or audible capability. And so if we're dealing with those imperfections basically it's me deciding which ones I can live with and which ones I can't, if I hear something that I don't like and I can see it in the measurement and I go back and adjust until it's gone then that's a win. Um For someone else I might have ignored something that's important to them but I can't in my mind as I'm developing, try and second guess what everybody might think. I just have to do. I do trust that. Well I've managed to do okay so far. So um you know, hopefully once again I can do something that people like. Um as long as I also like you know hearing you speak about designing speakers over the years, the different companies you've worked for what you're doing now, it reminds me so much of like a rock and roller, a songwriter. Somebody who's create their next song, they wake up in the middle of the night and they write down an idea on a piece of paper that they had because they don't want to lose it. Is that how it works for you. Do you kind of see yourself that way is a little bit of an artist obviously there's a lot of science and math behind it too, but it seems like there's a lot of art artistry in what you do. I'd use the word imagination because coming with ideas, they come from your imagination, they come from your subconscious often. And for me, when you have suddenly a creative thought, it's not come out of nothing, it's come out of the sum total of what you've been thinking about recently. Everything you've done before, that's just gone into your brain. That's in there somewhere and you might not immediately recall these ideas but it's in there and it's it's you keep giving new input and you subconsciously processing and at some point it'll pop out and you go ah and I had one of those moments just the other day and I had to call my brother, hey, I just had this idea. My brothers also works in the field and try and so I thought of something that he has a nice little one upsmanship. Exactly, a little bit of weight, a little bit of keeping up with the joneses. I'm sorry, I can't believe I didn't catch that the first time you have this built idea and then you go, so will it work. So now you have to go and do the real work of testing that concept and see how practical it is and cannot be made to work. So with these source 0.10? These are the only speakers available yet for now from mo fi, do you see them as two channel speakers or as part of a home theater system? Are there the rest of the home theater speakers? Is that something we might have to look forward to? Or can you comment on that? Well, our initial brief was to be concentrating on two channel and you know, for me, I mainly listening to channel anyway, so uh that was my goal, developed a great to channel speaker, but by two channels, I mean, well, it could also go in studios and it's a to a concentric, perfect for putting on a desktop and a bit big, but it being a two way concentric, it's uh completely consistent directionality in all directions, around consistent performance in all directions, which means you can lay on its side. So uh you know, in my mind, Oh yeah, that's perfect for studios because you can reduce the height, so you can see over it, easier to looking into recording space. Um But of course that's also why speakers on this side for home theater, because we want to try and fit the center channel underneath the screen. And clearly one of the best ways to do a center channel is a concentric driver, because orientation doesn't matter. So you can just take that speaker later on side and at the show, we had a lot of people going, oh, this would make an excellent home theater system because sufficient, good power handling, easy to drive. And you can just put it on the side and you got the center channel so you can get a really um high performance home theater system. So uh de facto the answer is, you're done, you've done it. Home theater speakers are ready to go base that the speaker sits on because it's not obvious until you look close, but the speaker goes straight back and then there's a three degree slope after a few inches towards the back panel. So when you sit on its side and you support it properly, it's Just pointing up slightly by 3°, which makes it great because center channels typically get sat lower. And so now the access points up towards you. So primarily designed with two channel in mind. Uh and I'm thinking about mo fi and they're uh you know, love and interest and focus on the whole world of vinyl and turntables and all of that. Uh and I know that when a when a song or an album is mixed and mastered its master differently depending on if it's going to be pressed into vinyl or made into a high res digital file. Uh they mix them differently for those different delivery methods. Does the speaker designer design speakers differently. Thinking about how the music is going to be delivered to their speaker. Um So I would say they're not necessarily mixed different, certainly max. And I talked to rick Rubin about this one because as I was trying this studio is asking him all speakers do use folio, mixing mastering. And it was very interesting. He had done an experiment where they brought in about 10 different potential speakers that they could use and they put each of them into each of the different studios. This is a huge undertaking. Each into the different studios that he got that is settled at Shangri La La, thankfully still standing. I know, dodge the fire bullet, that one. Yeah. So the aim was not to listen to each speaker and see which sounded best right or closest to what they thought they were doing when they were mixing it. It was will re master for each of the different uh mediums of the speaker that the this recording might be listened to, you know, in the control in your home stereo, settled in the car, on the headphones on your ipad, all these different things and we'll remix and re master a number of different recordings on each of these speakers and then we'll find out which speaker gave the best all over result for each of the different mediums that we might be listening to that speaker over so that you musically here everything you need to hear as much as possible regardless of which medium listening. I thought that was a fascinating concept. Uh but when I'm listening and in fact when any of us are listening uh other than perhaps a recording, we made ourselves in a particular venue, we have no idea what it should be sounding like. You just got to go into a recording studio and see all the tweaks that they do both in eq, two separate things out in the mix, all the different devices, they send it out through to add special effects, natural or artificial reverberation, which mike's they choosed where they place them with respect to the instrument. There's so many things that it's an artistic endeavor to create something. Um, and that's something isn't necessarily the sound, whatever it may be, that instrument just out in that recording studio as is as if you walked into that recording space. Um, that's so rare. And even when we're capturing a live event in a hall, um, which might we use, did we use space pair degrees cross cardioid? We use the Decker tree, all these different decisions. Artistic decisions we made to capture that event, Did we use spotlights on the soloists. So I don't know any of that. Most of us don't, if we pick any particular recording, no idea what actually happened. But we listened to it. And we've got an expectation of what we kind of want to hear and we choose our systems either based on getting our favorite recordings to town, how we wanted them to hear. It's no different really for me whether it's vinyl or digital sources, I'll listen to a variety of them and I'll tweet until I'm happy. Do you do something like maybe when you play the same song on vinyl and then play it on like a high res file or something to hear the differences. Um Do not bother with that. I don't not particularly, no, it's just some of my favorite recordings I've got on vinyl, I mean mostly these days it's been digital sources just optimizing those. Um And uh But I still just take whatever recordings are my favorite through the years and see if they sound good on these new speakers. Going back, you mentioned something about all the different companies. All I've been doing this for 50 years. So It's not that many in all those years. But is my sound exactly the same now as it used to be, even though it's me saying I designed what I like, I would say not necessarily fully or else I've learned nothing in 50 years. Um Everyone's tastes change or what they believe is correct or not. And so my designs have followed broadly my philosophy, there's some things that haven't changed, but some things have to experience um and will continue to do. So let's talk about power for a second. These speakers, the source point tens there, eight M 91 DB efficient. Uh That might that might tell somebody looking at those numbers, I don't need a crap ton of power to make these things sound good and in fact the RMS power ranges from 30 to 100 RMS watts of power. So they don't seem like they're super power hungry. Uh so inevitably there's gonna be people out there that will power these beautiful speech with, you know, a fairly inexpensive, entry level stereo receiver. Uh and there's gonna be others that will absolutely power them with some real legitimate high current power. What's your thoughts on the spectrum of power? And what does it take to make these speakers sound the way they're supposed to sound? I've always thought people get to homo power if we're just talking about power to get sound levels, the number of times were running any on fire Way into clipping and blasting areas out, that's relatively low. But you know, the show. And here in the lab, I typically run a 200 something what into a tone amplifier and I can go very loud. I haven't quite, I think I clicked it once, but that is extraordinary loud because the speaker is efficient, 91 maybe. And I made it eight of them because I wanted it to be easy to drive. And if we're thinking back to the old days of big speakers, the reason speakers are not efficient these days is we wanted smaller and smaller speakers. And when I was designing all the lack speakers, they're all bots, small boxes, the physics show that if you want a certain base performance and a certain penis level, you can only get 84 85 DB out of five inch small box speaker. But this is a big box. So I don't have those restrictions. So 91 DB and NATO and the related to museum 6.4 minimum. Um, so you think it's the question of, well, You don't have to have that many watts on the last day of the show, on Sunday morning, I walked in and the guys had set up with a BAT integrated tube amplifier and that's 45 watts per channel. So first thing I did was get out my CIA track from Dead Mouse and I thought this will show whether it can do it. And surprisingly it could. So I have no qualms about using a 45 watt tube amplifier. And you know, if you're not really, really going down 31 2 bam fire is gonna work great because it's such an easy um and the only thing about receivers, the lower power receivers tend to be cheap, low cost. So there's a difference between talking about low power amplification and low cost, low sound quality amplification. So that's the only thing I'd be aware of, if we're going to go to, to lower the cost of its sound quality might not be up to the job as a good match for the speakers are capable. We're going to repurpose this also for Crutchfield, the podcast, right? We're gonna take the audio from this and we're going to make it into an episode of our podcast and on the post cast part of the point is where we ask our employees mostly and our special guests questions like you know you have access to some of the best audio gear and consumer electronics products in the world. We've got a wonderful employee discount. We all take full advantage of it. What what got your attention, what made you so excited? You went ahead and spend your hard earned money on it, right? You could choose anything you want. Um What did you choose? And I'm assuming you have Andrew jones speakers all over the house. Right but maybe I'm wrong, maybe you have somebody else's speakers around. Um But what about the other electronics. Uh What about the tv that you have, you have a home theater system. Um And so it's the sky's the limit wide open. Tell us about something that you have access to because you're Andrew jones that you're excited about and would love to tell us about. It goes two ways I have uh C. D. Speakers, a hope the big original model ones. Um But they kind of lost in my home because I I live in a condo and I cant really play that land which is why I love this facility that I'm in now because it's close to home and it's settled by the listening room so I really want to relax and do the full part of having this job which is having a great setup. I can do it here. So those T. A. D. S are going to come here. I've already got a pair in the back of the room. I've got my commentary, compact monitor speakers, I've got a V. H. L. S. T. 200 uh to channel to back power amplifier. I've got some of peter magnet designed, tax and power amps. I've got the whole pioneer amplifier that was built looking like a two vampires everything built on top of the chassis. I've got a lot of vintage gear that I enjoy. I got aka stack one plus one speakers in the cupboard in the corner of actually doing the bathroom. The bathroom was the only room enough to store them in. Um I got quad, the sl 50 seven's. I love playing with lots of different things. It's not just being locked into one system it's being able to play around with lots of different things and understand the different kinds of sounds that you can have. What about your car? Do you just have the factory stereo in your car or have you replaced that with some amazing sounding car stereo? You know we do a little bit of car stereo around here. So I figured I'd ask it's interesting. I have actually been involved with helping develop cars, stereo sound systems. Um And that was a very interesting experience for me, luckily I wasn't the one doing the work of fitting them way too old for doing that. So it was interesting to understand. Well what is the difference in when you're measuring the system in the cars to pose, measuring them at home, How should it sound? And I had great fun built some really good sounding cars for three different projects. And what was interesting about that was that people say, well isn't it difficult developing for the band to the car? Well, the good thing is once you've done it, you know that every single person who listens to that system will hear the same thing with my speakers way we run, we deal with that on a daily basis. Right? We have a vehicle fit database so we can tell you exactly what speakers will work in your car, basically how they'll perform how and we can make a really good recommendation based on some factors that we already know. All we got to know is what car you have. And boy, the, the wide open spaciousness of home audio and all of the different rooms. Every single room is different. It allows for creativity and problem solving. But what it does is it, if you need the comfort zone of knowing exactly what's gonna fit and how it's gonna sound. You don't get that luxury in home at all. Well that's why I enjoy doing all the shows. I'm showing off my babies, I'm meeting everybody I like doing. But it also means I do set up any show that I'm going to be running. I want to be there doing the setup and understanding what it takes to get the speakers sounding at least halfway good. Hopefully a lot better than that in every single room I ever go into. And so that gives you a lot of experience, understanding the interaction between speaker and the room. Um, but with my car these days, I leased cars when you buy them. So it's whatever it comes with and my current car is a handful phone. So it comes with the BMW sound system and in one way I'm going, you mean I have to spend money on a competitive Hi Fi system? I have no choice. It comes with it if I want that spec level of the car. Um, but it's actually quite funny and it was very funny when I first bought that car because it turns out that the finance manager, I had to go in and sign, I'm busy signing the forms says, I need your name, address company. You work for jones and go at the time. L Ac you want to do jones for me? He'd been a audio enthusiast for his life most of his life. And his father was before him and he said, I've been following what you've been doing. So he's telling me about the sound system in there and how to plug in your hard drive and what kind of files you can use because it doesn't handle all the files. And we're having a long conversation about this. And the next day when I came to pick up the car because I that the check had to clear, came back the next day to pick you up and with my wife and salesman showing us everything. And the guy walks in my office, I'm not getting this car after all. So I'm walking, he says, do you know about the audio quest chitter book? And I go, yes, well if you put back into the USB port in the car before you put in the hard drive, it'll make the sound system so much better. I go back out and the high five you boys and your, since you left yesterday, he's been non stop showing us all these videos on his computer, video interviews of you. So that's great. I can see it now. The headline from this Crutchfield live is that Andrew jones has a B and W system in his Volvo. I think I've got one last question for you, a little birdie told me that at some point in 2023 we might actually have in person vendor trainings happening again here at Crutchfield ever since. Covid. We have not done that. Right. We've, you know, kept it safe and kept everybody at home that we could, but it's looking like we might be able to get more people back into the off, we'll get to see all of our coworkers we haven't seen in years. Uh, and we'll get those people that we've hired in these last few years who have had zero in person vendor trainings, zero opportunity to really listen to a bunch of home speakers or car speakers or anything. I'm really looking forward to that resuming in 2023. Uh, and you know, your trainings with past, your past trainings have always been memorable and a highlight and we, we talk about them with our new employees. So I hope to God you are planning to come back, come here and show off your source, point tens and whatever else you're working on. Sign me up. I love doing those trainings. Um, so yeah, as soon as you can get me out, I'm all for it. We're leaving L. A. And I'm not going to be able to do a quick field trainings any longer. Then I find the mof I do sell for you. So I think it's great. But then of course it's, it's Covid and you're not doing any person anyway. I got to start doing this. So we have a beautiful new call center here in Charlottesville with a beautiful brand new vendor training room that is huge and beautiful and sound treated and everything and it's gotten almost no use, uh, you know, we have meetings in there, but it's it's very few vendor trainings have ever happened in there. So I really look forward to those coming back. It'll help our advisors help our customers even better because they will get to meet people like you hear your speakers and and actually use that when talking with customers. So yeah, I can't wait for that to happen again. I'm looking forward to seeing you again in person. Andrew. Is there anything I have lacked? I've forgotten to ask you that. I really should have that. You need to tell our viewers at home. I'm sure everyone, when we're finished, we'll tell me why didn't you talk about such and such. But at the moment I think we're going excellent. It's been fun for me. Andrew. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. Have a wonderful one. We'll see you later. Bye bye.